"Don’t let others’ expectations of you dictate who you are or how you show up." - Debrah Giles
"Don’t let others’ expectations of you dictate who you are or how you show up." - Debrah Giles
Episode Summary: In this episode, BlackFemaleProject Founder Precious J. Stroud talks with philanthropy professional Debrah Giles about her career journey through the corporate and philanthropic worlds. Debrah discusses the biased treatment she’s received, how she shifted her perspective to depersonalize those experiences, and the rewards of the work and support of community that’s kept her grounded through it all.
This episode is sponsored by: Marcus Crawford (Become a sponsor today: www.blackfemaleproject.org/donate)
GUEST
Debrah Giles is a philanthropic and non-profit management professional who serves as a Senior Program Officer for the East Bay Community Foundation in Oakland, CA. She specializes in supporting initiatives within EBCF that foster education and youth development. In her role, she serves as the Senior Program Officer for the Clorox Company Foundation’s Responsive Grantmaking Program and continues to lead the work that focuses on boys and men of color.
Prior to joining the East Bay Community Foundation, for nearly 15 years Debrah worked for Sun Microsystems in their Global Community Development Group (Foundation). At Sun Microsystems, she managed all aspects of their national and regional grant-making programs and developed strategies to improve their grant-making procedures. During her tenure with Sun Microsystems, she also developed and guided major funding programs, including their international disaster relief program, multi-year educational grants, and global gift matching programs. Additionally, she was responsible for regional and field management for both community relations and volunteer projects.
Debrah received her bachelor’s degree in Business Management from St. Mary’s College. She is a native of Oakland.
Follow @GilesDebrah.
HOST
Precious J. Stroud, BlackFemaleProject Founder
Precious envisions a world where marketing images and messages uplift the dignity of Black women, and harmful stereotypes are no longer present. She launched PJS Consultants in 2014 to address the communications needs of leaders and organizations who value justice. Her clients enjoy elevated brand recognition and awareness because their stories stand out. Learn more at www.pjsconsultants.net #workforgood.
RESOURCES
East Bay Community Foundation https://www.ebcf.org/
Bay Area Blacks in Philanthropy https://www.facebook.com/BABIPCA93/
Join Us:
https://blackfemaleproject.org/subscribe
Follow Us:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/blackfemaleproject
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Blackfemaleproject
LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/blackfemaleproject/
Precious Stroud (00:07):
BlackFemaleProject.
(00:14):
Hi there. This is Precious Stroud and I'm here with Debrah Giles. Really excited to talk about who she is, what she does, and her BlackFemaleProject story. Question number one, what's your name?
Debrah Giles (00:25):
Debrah Giles.
Precious Stroud (00:27):
What industry do you work in? Debrah.
Debrah Giles (00:30):
I work in philanthropy.
Precious Stroud (00:31):
And would you say that your entry level, mid-career, late career, retired
Debrah Giles (00:36):
Late career, definitely 20 plus years since industry.
Precious Stroud (00:40):
What inspired your connection to BlackFemaleProject
Debrah Giles (00:43):
Precious Stroud. When you first told me about this project, it was extremely interesting to me considering when I think about my career in corporate and my experience and then even in the nonprofit area, our arena, working in philanthropy. It's just a consistent story that we hear over and over again and cannot emphasize the importance of being able to tell that story and other young women coming up in the industry to be able to hear it and understand how to navigate some of the problems and issues that they'll face.
Precious Stroud (01:23):
Alright, Debrah, so then what led you to the work that you do?
Debrah Giles (01:29):
I grew up here in Oakland, East Oakland, and I started an afterschool program when I was probably in the sixth grade and I did it through middle school, beginning of high school. And by the time we entered high school, the program funding had been cut and we had probably about 30 or 40 girls, all African-American, all doing martial arts. And it was such a powerful experience. We learned so much in terms of taking care of ourselves, being responsible for our community. And it was, like I said, it was a wonderful experience, but when funding was cut, I realized that not everyone would be able to proceed going forward. And I was fortunate. My dad took a part-time job to allow me to continue with my lessons, but we went from about 30 to 40 girls to 15 and then finally down to six and I thought, wow, I know what it meant to me to be a part of that program and how it shaped my life. But then I kept thinking about, well, what happened when funding gets cut? Where does that money come from? How is it accessible? And that started the process for me.
Precious Stroud (02:47):
Do you feel like you were prepared for what you encountered in the professional realm?
Debrah Giles (02:51):
Yes and no. I was fortunate enough to be raised with my several aunts, my grandparents, my grandmother on both sides, and my great-grandmother. And that consistent message about how you show up and what they see when they first see you was always important. So style dress, it was just drilled into me from my early age and I figured education wise, if I prepared myself, if I knew my materials, I knew the industry. If I stayed relevant in terms of my craft and I showed up accordingly, I would be okay. I knew it would be bumps along the way, but I would be okay and it just wasn't the case In corporate. I started off with some microsystem supporting their foundation and the experience was eyeopening to say the least.
Precious Stroud (03:54):
How did it not meet or defy what you thought was going to happen?
Debrah Giles (04:00):
I did everything I was supposed to do, but I was always still questioned as to why am I at the table and what is your role or a surprise, that's your title. I'm one young lady. I see. We worked on the same floor, we weren't in the same department, but we see each other all the time. And we were in her restroom once and washing her hands and she looked at my outfit again and complimented me and I thought, okay, she does it pretty nice, but I'm okay with that. And then she says, do you have a sister who works at a boutique? I'm thinking, well, maybe she saw someone who looked like me. I said, no. She says, well, I never see you in the same thing twice. I looked at her and I said, sure. I wear the same thing twice, just not in the same season. I thought, you're clocking me that hard. But obviously we're making around the same amount, or I'm assuming we aren't, but I can't afford to look the way I look every day. Incredible. So I have to be buying, not purchasing stuff and taking it back and purchasing and taking it back. Obviously keeping the tag in. There's no way that I can show up and look the way I do every day. And I thought, wow, okay.
Precious Stroud (05:18):
What else?
Debrah Giles (05:20):
I started off in corporate supporting philanthropy. Now I work at a foundation supporting philanthropy, but I am oftentimes find myself explaining who I am and how I arrived at this point. And I give everyone a benefit of the doubt by giving an explanation one time and not assuming that, assuming that you don't know any better, but I'm a senior program officer in philanthropy and I've been in this industry for 20 plus years. I'm where I want to be. Don't get me wrong. I'm not thinking I should be doing this or be doing that or have this title or that title. I worked directly with nonprofit organizations with some wonderful inspiring leaders who run these organizations, but when I show up, it's like they're still looking like this can't be the woman who's coming here to talk to me about money because who in their right mind would give someone like me that responsibility helping I'm sure my cousins, my folks, my people, am I not, how can I possibly evaluate based on strengths, programs, success, challenges?
(06:30):
Because how did I get to this point? And I look and I think out of all the years, all of my experience, and I'm still having to address that or in subtle ways, sometimes straightforward ways, but subtle ways, and it never surprises me. You'll have someone who's newly to the industry and they're interested in philanthropy and they may walk in at the same position and level that I am without the experience, but because of their color and who they know. It happens time and time again. And I try not to get frustrated because I oftentimes have to remove me from the equation, not about me. It's not about my success. It's not about, at the end of the day, how happy I am. It's about who have I helped at the end of the day, what have I accomplished? What organization, what family, what student, what program is better off because of what I've done or what have I put in place in order for them to benefit later on? Cause that's what keeps 'em going.
Precious Stroud (07:43):
That's the rewarding part.
Debrah Giles (07:44):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Precious Stroud (07:48):
So as you continue this theme that has carried on about, it actually reminds me about one of the contributors who works in corporate finance. The way she describes it is people kind of, well, how'd you get that job? You couldn't possibly be adding to running the business? That couldn't be what you do. You mentioned that it's not about you yet. You're having these experiences. How do you make sense of that and then move on understanding, I mean, you've mentioned one thing is you stay focused on who you're there ultimately to be in service to what kind of support system or do you have in place?
Debrah Giles (08:26):
Family and friends. Family and friends. They know who I am when I'm about the challenges, the struggles I face as an individual and that unconditional love is not their expectations, but is my drive to never disappoint because they will show up and be present on any given day at any given time. I don't care where I'm at, what I need. I am blessed to always be to pick up the phone or drop by the house or we need to hang out, we need to spend time. I need to be refueled. That's my support.
Precious Stroud (09:07):
Yeah. Alright. Let me get back to the questions here on the paper. So the one we just left was, did you feel like you were prepared? If yes, what prepared you? And if not, what would've better prepared you? Is there anything you want to add to that one?
Debrah Giles (09:22):
No, I don't think anyone could have said to me, when you encounter this, this is how you should be. Or when you encounter this, don't be bothered by it. Those are things that your experience, your journey and how you've gotten to that point that dictates how you respond and what you take away from it, what you leave and how better prepare you for the next time. Like I said, growing up, being in that loving, supportive environment, especially with the women and just drilling different things. In my head I felt as though that emotional support about who I am as an individual, who I am as a woman, that made me strong to the point, I knock that down, you may dent it, you may come up against it, but that didn't change who I was when I walked into the room and your doubts facing me.
(10:19):
That would never change. And it's because of the support I had coming up. And in terms of the being prepared in terms of my craft, knowing the industry, like I said, staying focused, staying current, taking classes, I knew I had to do all that because I didn't want to doubt myself. I wanted to be to the point where I was assured where when I walked into the room, not just because I read this or did that is because I've studied and I'm where I want to be and I'm comfortable with that point. It was never about doubting my ability to do the job, but as a doubting my, doubting me as a person, as a woman, as a Black woman stepping into this role, stepping into this industry, stepping into that room or being a part of a panel. And it was everything that came with being in this industry that, yeah.
Precious Stroud (11:20):
So can you share a bit about the ways that your Blackness or femininity is either honored or challenged in your field or type of work?
Debrah Giles (11:28):
It is such a reward when we go on a site visit and we walk into the room and those young kids turn around and they look at us and they thought, you here to talk about money. You really, we don't see anyone like you walking into this room or someone who visits us to talk about possible support. And it is such a reward. I will never get tired of that. I mean there's the challenges which I've already talked about.
Precious Stroud (12:01):
Why is that so meaningful to you?
Debrah Giles (12:03):
When I think back when they talked about the funding being cut, I'm like, what does that mean? Funding? Where was the money coming from and is there more money out there? Who makes these decisions? It was such a mystery to me. So I always make a point when I go for a site visit and we're not just talking to staff when we were talking to students, I let 'em know who I am, where I come from. I'm right here from Oakland just like you are. And if they have questions about how do you do what you do, I am more than willing to answer it. But it takes away a bit of the mystery. These are not people who sit in these towers or these tall buildings and or these offices make decisions about us. There are people sometimes who look just like us and they're not unapproachable and here I am, I'm right here, right here. Ask me anything. But the look and awe and the smile on your face will always, always be warming to my heart. Yeah.
Precious Stroud (13:08):
Thank you. Alright, Debrah, so what advice would you like to share with young Black women looking to get involved in your industry
Debrah Giles (13:17):
Do your homework? I love this field and I find it incredibly rewarding having been on both sides of corporate and being on the side of a nonprofit work for a community foundation, but it's still a nonprofit is still equally as challenging and rewarding as corporate, but it can be emotional when you're serving the community. And that's what we're doing. I see ourself as in service. It can be emotional sometimes you think you've done enough. At the end of the day he feels though I haven't and there's more I should be doing and more I could be doing. I think you need to realize your wins and find allies. There's, having the support at home is one thing, but having the support in the field is another. There are a number of wonderful people who've been in this industry for a number of years that I rely on too for support. And I didn't stumble across them until I was probably about 12 years into the industry. And when I did, I felt like it was an aha moment. Bay Area, Blacks and philanthropies, an organization I was introduced to probably 15 years in. And I was always so amazed to find that there are Black people doing this work at different levels and wow. And they're not shy about being available and calling on them asking for guidance. So I think you have to realize you're not alone, reach out.
Precious Stroud (14:59):
So as you begin to cultivate those relationships for someone who's never done that before, what's step one? How do you cultivate a relationship, a professional relationship like that with someone who might be more senior?
Debrah Giles (15:12):
There are always networking opportunities. Take advantage of every one of them. The more someone sees your face, the more they hear your voice, the more they're exposed to you and you to them, it makes it that much more easier. And if you think someone's too senior for you to approach, then maybe start with someone else that they may know that may be on your same level, but they may be senior now. But they didn't start that way. They didn't start off as senior. And I'm sure they had someone that they could depend on as a mentor and kind of help them along the way. And it's one thing I've found in this industry and that type of support, I've never been told, no, I've never been put off and no one's ever followed back up. So it may be intimidating when you think about someone's title, but if you think about that person and what they're doing and their responsibility, that should make it easy.
Precious Stroud (16:06):
So if I go back to some of the experiences you were talking about in early, you were in corporate, but working in philanthropy or working for foundations or the corporate giving side and those lessons that you learned early on about how you might be perceived by people who might be more small minded or have antiquated thoughts about how the world really is, and then they meet you and you break all of their expectations and or stereotypes down and they cannot ask a basic question, they don't know how to engage. All of that is part of the journey that you described and it helped you understand how to navigate probably in very friendly environments and environments that may not have been as friendly. How now do you think those experience shaped how you move? What are some of the tactics that you navigate with every day or from time to time do you feel like, Hey, you know what, I learned that then and then I changed the way I approach this and now the benefit of that is this works like this. How did you take that and make it work for you?
Debrah Giles (17:09):
I went from assuming that everyone was judging me to assuming that they just didn't know any better. So I'm given the time, given the opportunity, I'll take the time to give you an explanation or address what I considered back then. I considered an ignorant question, how could you not know that? I would give everyone the benefit of the doubt or not make the assumption that they're coming from a racist place. And I believe they're coming from a place of not knowing and never had the opportunity to even address the question to someone without feeling uncomfortable. So my thing is everyone, I try to treat everyone the same and I'm not pre-judging, so I think that makes me more approachable. But that chip that was on my shoulder, that guard that I put around me, my clothes that I put on was like my armor that I wore every day when I went into that corporate environment. I am no longer concerned with being dressed properly or assuming that they're looking at me thinking this. Are they thinking that I'll give them the chance, I'll give them the opportunity. But you only get once. You only get it once.
Precious Stroud (18:35):
So then as we wrap up our conversation today, are there any final words of wisdom that you'd like to share or things that you considered as you were preparing for our conversation today?
Debrah Giles (18:49):
I have a daughter, she's 20, she's about to graduate from college and she is a fighter and she is feisty. And I look at her and I think, where did you come from? Where did this come from? And then she always teases me. She's like, mom, what do you think? And I have never seen myself that way. I would never think someone would describe me that way, but I am so fiercely proud of how she's turned out so far. I mean, I feel as though sometime her journey has just begun, but when I look at who she is and how humble she is and what a kind person, all that wrapped up in one, I thought, okay, I'm sure my husband has something to do with, but I always think I've done something right. Never give up. Never give up. If you decide it's not what you want to do, then but don't detour because someone else decided for you. Don't let others' expectations of you dictate who you are or how you show up. If you believe in it and it's what you really want to do, go for it. Go for it.
Precious Stroud (20:12):
I would love to know Debrah, for those who might be questioning themselves or their confidence doesn't let them kind of get up and go, have you ever had a friend, or pardon me, someone who like a girlfriend circle where you guys had to just help each other from time to time? And if so, what were some of the ways that you were able to see people get over or overcome some of the obstacles or barriers that they had to in their careers?
Debrah Giles (20:39):
Talk about starting an afterschool programs, martial arts program. There were 10 of us who journeyed on and five of us who stuck together after that. I guess it started in sixth grade. I'm still friends with those five women. That is my sister circle, always include my older sister in that circle. I think she's my biggest cheerleader
(21:08):
And my best friend. That's my support. Those women are, they're awesome. And we're all so different, even in terms of the industry that we all chose, but whenever we're faced with something or wherever we're dealing with something, I go back to when I said I can pick that phone up any time. My same family and friends, I'm not just talking about people I don't talk to, but once or twice a year, these are women who are part of my life all year long, every day, any day. And they're my support. Yeah. It's so funny because when we talk about challenges, and I think I am to the point where I am trying to be laid back and come to terms with something I'm dealing with, and I can think of one of my girlfriends and she can fly off the handle, but then when she brings it back home and she sits down and said, this is how we're going to respond, this is what we're going to do.
(22:18):
And I always think, oh, she's such a firecracker, but she reminds me, you did the same thing for me. Do you remember when? And I think, well, yeah, but she No, no, no. It was the same. It was the same. I was out there about to lose my mind and you grounded me, brought me back, and this is how we handle it and this is how it turned out. So that support is, and it helps with the fact that they're not in the same industry so they can look at an issue or a problem from a different perspective. Keep me from going off a lot of times
Precious Stroud (22:54):
You have someone you can call,
Debrah Giles (22:56):
Oh, I have, and
Precious Stroud (22:57):
Tell the truth,
Debrah Giles (22:57):
Tell the truth, tell the truth,
Precious Stroud (22:59):
and then package it differently.
Debrah Giles (23:00):
Package it differently. I don't have to sugarcoat it. And it's like, well, you know, didn't handle that right. Yeah, I know that. So Ann, I think the biggest advice I received from, not one of my girlfriends, but one of my mentors. I was so upset about the situation and you couldn't tell me the person wasn't racist and how they were coming at their response and their whole attitude about the problem. And I remember talking with her about it and she listened and she said, I know you're upset. She said, but right now I need you to take you out the equation. I was like, how do I do that? He said, so-and-so said, take you out the equation, which it is you want to see happen. What is it that the ultimate result that you want to see at the end of this? I said, well, of course, blah, blah, blah. She said, okay, now how are you going to get there? I was like, yeah, okay. It ain't about me. It ain't about me.
Precious Stroud (24:01):
Thank you so much for your time today, Debrah.
Debrah Giles (24:03):
Thank you.
Ché Abram (24:11):
We would like to thank our sponsors, Ché Abram, Fern Stroud with BlackVines.net, Holly Babe Faust and Janet Stone, who are donors and supporters of the project. Yew Joo Hoe, Melody Fuller with Oakland Wine and Food Society. You too can learn how to become a sponsor. Please go to BlackFemaleProject.org. Again, that is BlackFemaleProject.org.